Episode 4: Britney
10/4/2021
Even before the conservatorship, Britney Spears had to figure out how to navigate a stunningly sexist workplace. The kind of workplace where it was considered charming for a fully adult Ed McMahon to compliment your "pretty eyes" and ask if you have a boyfriend...when you're ten years old...and on national television.
Jeannie and Eula have a heart-to-heart about the public narrative around Britney Spears, and how we all had a hand in creating her toxic, sexist workplace - one that only got worse once she became a mom. And they talk about how to do better from here on out.
The documentary we discuss in this episode is Framing Britney Spears, available on Hulu. There's now a second documentary on Hulu too. It's called Controlling Britney Spears. We highly recommend you start with Framing Britney Spears.
Other stuff from this episode:
Mystery Show Episode 2: Britney
Britney's Astrological Birth Chart
Support our show! Become a patron and receive extra goodies like bonus content, Jeannie's research lists for each episode, and monthly AMAs with the hosts.
Transcript:
Eula (00:03):
This is Battle Tactics for your Sexist Workplace.
Jeannie (00:06):
The podcast that knows yes, your workplace is sexist. Even if you've sold a hundred million records worldwide.
Eula (00:13):
I'm Eula Scott Bynoe.
Jeannie (00:15):
I'm Jeannie Yandel. And if you want to support the show, 1. Thank you so much. And 2. Become a patron at patreon.com/btsw
Eula (00:30):
Seems like over the last few months, the whole world has started paying attention to Britney Spears and the conservatorship she's been in for 13 years. 13! Like a teenager.
Jeannie (00:39):
That's a long time. Yeah, that's a freshman in high school.
Eula (00:44):
Yeah.
Jeannie (00:44):
That's you going to college in five years.
Eula (00:46):
Since early 2008, Britney, hasn't been able to make her own financial decisions or decide where to hang out or who to spend time with. Right? Legally the power has belonged to her dad, Jamie Spears. It's kind of like Erica Jane and you know, Tom Gerardi, you know, if you're into like the Real Housewives. Get to it. Eula is a gigantic fan and would love to be on Bitch Sesh if you guys were listening
Jeannie (01:09):
Just a heads up. So much like, I don't know much about the Real Housewives, unless Eula tells me, I also like spent a lot of time, not knowing much about what was going on with Britney until Eula told me. So back in February, you were like, "Look, there is this New York Times Presents documentary on Hulu called "Framing Britney Spears. It's about her conservatorship, but it's also about so much more and we have to watch it." And so we watched it and it kind of knocked us on our butts.
Eula (01:42):
Yeah.
Jeannie (01:43):
Um, and so then we made an episode about it,
Eula (01:46):
Right!
Jeannie (01:47):
And then since that time in the past several months, a whole bunch of stuff has happened. Britney Spears actually spoke for the first time at one of her conservatorship hearings. She said it was time for the conservatorship to end. She called her family "criminals" basically...
Eula (02:03):
Damn straight.
Jeannie (02:04):
For making her work.
Eula (02:05):
Strong words!
Jeannie (02:06):
Yeah, it was, I was like, I listened to the tape and I was like, dang. But you know, her assertion was like, I've been working my butt off. I don't see any of my money. My family does, this is a criminal, this is criminal. What's happening here. Um, and then since she spoke at that hearin,g her father, Jamie Spears was suspended from the conservatorship. And there's actually a court hearing on November 12th to consider whether to terminate the conservatorship entirely. Um, really exciting.
Eula (02:42):
Right.
Jeannie (02:42):
Oh, also I almost forgot to mention this. Britney actually got engaged. She announced it on her Instagram. It was super cute.
Eula (02:49):
What a blessing for real, for real. Yeah. Also totally worth mentioning, we don't mention COVID one single time in this episode, we just talked about Britney and her incredibly sexist workplace and, ugh, our parts in it.
Jeannie (03:01):
Yeah. We're all, we're all part of the problem.
Eula (03:04):
Super complacent back then.
Jeannie (03:09):
You wanted to talk about this actually. You sent me a text message. I don't know, like a week ago. And you were like, "We have to talk about the Britney Spears documentary," which I had not seen until you told me I had to watch it. So why did you, why were you like we have to talk about it?
Eula (03:22):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I love to know about pop culture. Like I really value the collective knowledge of our country. But I didn't even know about a Free Britney movement. Right. Like didn't even know. So, uh, I heard about it on another podcast or two, I can't remember it opened my eyes to that. And our former producer, Caroline talked about it and was really upset about it. She was like, "Britney, my woman, my friend, my inspiration, you know, the nerve of you got all to disrespect her with the knowledge that we now have about her conservatorship." And, um, I thought about it and I was like, and it's workplace sexism.
Jeannie (04:03):
Yeah. Which you are, of course you are a hundred percent, right? Like once I watched it, it's this, um, it's this New York Times series called the New York Times Presents it's on Hulu. And this one is called "The Framing of Britney Spears." And it was, it, the, it was an entire hour of somebody just trying to do something that she was incredibly good at and loved doing. And like structure after structure, after structure just, ripping her to pieces and exploiting her because there was money to be made in that exploitation. And of course it was sexist. It was like, I don't know, man. We were texting about this too. It was like rape culture and capitalism hand in hand, skipping through a meadow, making tons of money off Britney Spears. It sucked.
Eula (04:54):
And it's also basic it's because it's of how kind she is. You know, she has this true kindness to her that you can, you can see from a distance. That you can feel in her voice. You know, it just exudes off of her. And it seems like people just could not help but exploit her for her kindness. You know? It's just like where she to have been truly, uh, aggressive at any other time than, you know, her "break" Um, she would never have risen to the, uh, doll, like figure she rose to right. To then fall from that like perfect, you know, perfect doll or whatever. But she's a human being.
Jeannie (05:34):
Was there ever a moment when she did have a perfect doll moment though? Like that there was a downfall from, because it, it never, like, it never felt as though she was just a little girl. Like even when she was 10 years old and on star search, like Ed McMahon, like the thing that he asks her is like, "Do you have a boyfriend?" And he, he says, her eyes are pretty. Like, even when she's 10 freaking years old and looks like an actual doll, like she still not treated like a little girl, she's treated like, you know, like, oh, I could have sex with you at some point.
Eula (06:11):
Blahhhhh....ugh. I mean, absolutely. I mean, absolutely because you know, women are valued against men, right? Like, do they, do they exist if there's not a man holding their hand or on their finger or something like that? Um, and the truth is we do.
Jeannie (06:26):
Yeah. Oh my God,
Eula (06:26):
I mean I'm right here right now. I see you too.
Jeannie (06:30):
That's my forehead.
Eula (06:32):
But people don't, people, it's taken people a long time to figure that out. And he's taken men a long time to, you know, figure out they're not in charge of us either. Right. We've, we've joked about this. But, uh, you know, I like to say that'd before they oppressed black people they were oppressing women. You know, everybody was out here oppressing women first.
Jeannie (06:51):
Yeah. That's a laugh riot. (laughs)
Eula (06:55):
But I say that to mean, like, you know, her kindness, her ability, her, uh, and her parentenage? What is it?
Jeannie (07:05):
Parentage? You mean like her, her parents, like the people who were her parents. Okay. Yeah.
Eula (07:11):
Her parentage you know? I would say like, all of that contributed, and her culture, I imagine, contributed to the way she was taught to be both sexualized and submissive in all of her power and her glory and talent. Um, man, it was, it's hard to watch.
Jeannie (07:27):
And intellect too.
Eula (07:27):
Absolutely.
Jeannie (07:28):
I mean, yeah, that was one of the things that really struck me in watching this was how smart she was. Like--was as though she's, as though she's deceased. She's still smart. But like, you know, when she's just starting in her career as a solo artist, like she clearly knew what she wanted. She clearly had a vision and you know, she was not afraid to talk about that vision, right? Like I was really as somebody who, you know, I'm curious how, like how you remember her in the sort of beginning, I guess, like, you know, "Baby one more time" phase or whatever. But like I only really ever knew her as like fodder for tabloid. Like I, I never, there was never a moment when I was a fan of her music necessarily. So like most of what I knew of her came out of like Us Weekly and those, those magazines that I admit that I purchased back then. Um, yeah. What about you? I mean, do you, were you ever a fan of her music?
Eula (08:32):
Yeah. You know, I mean, I was just really into MTV, you know, I was in high school around this time, maybe middle school. And so it was a big deal to, you know, come home, watching TV, be hip on it, know what's in the know and come back to school the next day and talk about it, I guess, and be knowledgeable, you know, that's my thing. And so I really, uh, remember her debut and then when the video comes out, it feels young too. It feels like, you know, all she's doing is fantasizing about the school day, which is freedom. I mean, aren't, we all? Was she always fantasizing about her freedom??
Jeannie (09:05):
Oh boy howdy. I mean...
Eula (09:10):
But she's just overall, she's just an amazingly talented performer. And like you said, she's very smart at what she does. She knows how to, um, get on stage and command the stage. You can tell from when she's doing those little mall, uh, performances and she's like, I'm Britney Spears and this is my first single like, okay1.
Jeannie (09:30):
Yep. So I have to, I feel like I don't want to like treat this as a confessional, but the thing that I, that I have been thinking about, like since watching that is, I do remember sort of that like late nineties, early two thousands, like the way, like, I guess, I don't know, feminists kind of talked about Britney Spears as though like, you know, "how dare she she's ruining it for the rest of us." Like, this is not the kind of girl, this is not the kind of woman you want to be like, you should not be seen just because you, you know, you dress in a sexy way. You should not be seen as talented just because you can move your body in a certain way. Um, which like really neatly sidesteps the fact.
Jeannie (10:17):
And I remember like thinking that stuff too, like what the, what is this, what is her problem? Like, why is she doing this? Like, nobody's going to take her seriously if she does this, you know, like, and it helped me be like, I'm never going to be that kind of woman. Like, I'm never going to be like that, you know? Um, which really neatly sidesteps the fact that like, you know, she gets to make decisions about how she dresses and how she looks and how she presents herself, just like I do. And, you know, just like all of us do. And, uh, you know, she was like, there was like a whole like shitty machine behind her and around her and that she was getting sort of slowly crushed in. Um, you know, where the whole goal was to sexualize the shit out of her AND to punish her for being so sexual at the same time. Like, it's...
Eula (11:09):
And, you know, I think that the thing about this is that everyone was getting the same treatment, right? Like when you say that, I think about Christina Aguilar and how Christina Aguilera was "raunchier' than Britney. And so always in comparison, Britney seemed like a sweeter version of, uh, you know, the girl next door, even though she's half naked, you know. But we were also really encouraged to be that way. I mean, do you remember those low cut Levi's? I mean, they did not let your ass stay in them. Right?! And like, we were supposed to wear them out places and then have a top that like allowed for that much of a gap to like show off this like extreme torso, the way Britney had. It wasn't just, um, you know, her being, um, sexualized. It was like the whole industry pushing that look upon all of us for a time period.
Eula (12:00):
And, um, and I would say that the challenge with Britney is that she, she had a culture of submissive-ness. You know? I think that it seems to me like where she's from the small town, her father is really seen as a pillar of, um, of the house. Right. And in charge and, and one to turn to for guidance. And in that guidance, he's taken advantage of her gift and talent and ability. And he's only seen her as a vessel for income and a, uh, creation of his. You know, it's interesting because you talk about how, like, you really only know her from those tabloids, but like, by the time she got to the tabloids, I remember thinking like, why do I care? Like, if this is just, if this is her just experience her life, like she goes to the grocery store and this is her and her short shorts at an ampm with, uh, with the paparazzi at her ass every time she took a step. I mean, it was like, I don't care at all.
Eula (13:09):
I mean, and now I can see too that she was clearly just having her freedom for the first time. Like that real taste of like, you know, probably smoking weed, hanging out with somebody she really liked, falling in love, right? You know, truly falling in love, getting married, all of that. Like, you know, I'm sure drinking, all of that crescendoing into just like a love affair in front of us. When like, we all just want to cozy up, you know, all day. That's all, you know, I got, we had to look up her birth chart because in my head I'm like, she must be Virgo because of how nice she is. But...
Jeannie (13:43):
I did!! I totally did. I've got it right here.
Eula (13:47):
Oh my god I love you so much, I love you so much.
Jeannie (13:51):
You, Eula Scott Bynoe have convinced me that it is important to know about people's astrological charts. So she's a Sagittarius.
Eula (14:00):
So very fun, can let things go! Oh, that's why she's able to do some of this. She can let stuff go.
Jeannie (14:06):
Yep.
Eula (14:07):
Because she does, she's not holding onto it. Like I am.
Jeannie (14:11):
She was born in early December.
Eula (14:13):
Yeah. Okay. Do we know hes moon?
Eula (14:17):
We do.
Jeannie (14:18):
Her moon is Aquarius.
Eula (14:19):
Oh, oh, okay. I get that. So Aquarius is kind of outer spacey, right? And so I think that's why we get this kind of like, you know, like girl next, like Blondie kind of like, like energy from her. Or how, like, when she's trying to give us messages, they're like super deep, you know what I mean? Like it's a yellow t-shirt versus just a letter because she's like, you know, Aquarius like signals from the great beyond. And aquaria, you know, and Sagittarius are fun. Like they're just supposed to be a fun sign and they get over things quickly. So if something like really burned them, they have the ability to be like, "you know, I'm bothered and I don't care anymore." Free. So that makes a lot more sense with her and that like, and how she commented on Justin Timberlake. Right? Because her attitude towards Justin Timberlake was like, "That dude from the past," right? Where I would have burnt his ass.
Jeannie (15:16):
Haha! Justin Timberlake. God damn you, Justin Timberlake. Yeah. I'm I feel like we could do a whole other episode on what a total tool Justin Timberlake is between Britney and Janet Jackson. But here's another thing about Sagittarius that I just learned is that, um, in Greek mythology, so of course I watched the Britney Spears documentary and I think about all this Greek mythology stuff. Cause that's always where my head goes. But like, um, so Sagittarius is associated with Chiron is, um, he trained Achilles for the Trojan war, but Chiron is also known as the wounded warrior. So like he helps, he's wounded himself, but he's always like trying to help others. Um, which I found myself thinking a lot about like how Britney, because like, because she was, you know, she was exploited so often, she walked into situations. I don't know if she was submissive necessarily, but I do think she walked into situations in good faith where she honestly believed if she told somebody to stop doing something or that something was upsetting her, that those people would listen to her and believe her and it never ever happened.
Jeannie (16:27):
She tried again and again, and again, to say, this is an incredibly upsetting experience to have the paparazzi hunt me and my infant when I have a baby day after day after day, but they never stopped. Um, but it bothered me that one of my takeaways from this was like, oh, Britney, she's so strong. She's so strong. But it was like, I feel like we couldn't have a conversation about how misogynistic celebrity culture is, um, without having seen what it did to somebody like Britney Spears. I, I kind of hate that that's where we are now that like we had to see such an extreme example. Um, like the New York Times critic, Wesley Morris in the documentary said that like through this lens, you can see how vulturous society is, particularly when it comes to young women. Um, and I hate that. Like she had to be like the person that the vulture kept attacking again and again and again.
Jeannie (17:32):
Um, but it made me think of Chiron in Greek mythology a little bit. Um, and she also made me think about, I was telling you this earlier, but, um, about Cassandra, who was this priestess for Apollo, the God of the sun. And Apollo got angry at Cassandra. Um, and because I can't remember why he got angry. Why do gods ever get angry? Cause they suck in, there are no consequences just like Justin Timberlake. Um, but like, uh, but so, um, Apollo got angry at Cassandra. She had the gift of foresight. She could predict the future. She saw the future. Um, and so Apollo's curse was that nobody would ever believe any of her predictions, no matter what she said was about to happen. Nobody would ever believe her
Eula (18:18):
Gaslighting from the, for your entire life...
Jeannie (18:20):
Gaslighting, for her whole entire life. And, um, and, and she had other awful things happen to her, including she was basically taken as, forcibly, as a concubine, um, by the Greek general Agamemnon and dragged from her home back to Greece. She told Agamemnon, as soon as he got home, he was going to die. He didn't listen to her. Guess what happened to him? He died, his wife slit his throat when he was in the bathtub. Um, but it made me think about...
Eula (18:53):
What I got to rest on his wife slit his throat in the bathtub?! But go ahead. I mean, that was whoa. Okay. That's a way to go. But I understand, she said, she said, "You know what? The easiest place to do, this is in the tub. Cause then I can just rinse it out. I don't have to do a lot of cleanup." God damn.
Jeannie (19:13):
Yeah. For real. I know. Greek mythologies, like there's, it's brutal. But it did make me think about like how many times Britney Spears said, "You can't do this to me. You can't do this to me. This is, this is ripping me apart. Like I will shave my own head to get you to stop hunting me and touching me." And nobody listened. Nobody took her seriously. And then we were all shocked. You know, when she started having a "mental breakdown," it just, it, it reminded me of Cassandra.
Eula (19:48):
And can we talk about postpartum?
Jeannie (19:49):
Yes. Postpartum depression. Yeah.
Eula (19:51):
I mean, the fact that she's dealing with postpartum depression at the time, like hadn't experienced that I would have done the same.
Jeannie (20:00):
Oh my God.
Eula (20:01):
I mean, it all, it's so funny because it was so logical. It was so logical when she realized she had just had a baby, it was...
Jeannie (20:10):
I felt the same way. I was like, I understood exactly why she did what she did. I understood all of it. Once I knew she had had a baby,
Eula (20:17):
It was like, she had a baby and we were all like, "you need to cut your hair." (laughs) Oh my God. Two babies. Oh my God. In two years?! Oh my God. Grab that umbrella girl. You bought them. You bought him that car. You bought him that fucking car. He's making so much money off of your image that you bought him that car, the house he goes home to and the boat that ho tows.
Jeannie (20:47):
Yep.
Eula (20:48):
Fuck that car up. Fuck his car up. Follow him home!
Jeannie (20:52):
Murder him in the bathtub? Yeah. I mean, I really like, I know, I know you felt this too. It was like, I understand exactly why she was so furious that she shaved her head in the hopes of like getting them to leave her the hell alone. And then she went after that dude's car. Like if, if you were hunting me and hunting my infant in the same way, I mean, she was reserved. She was conservative. Like, you know, she like, you know, she absolutely held back.
Eula (21:28):
You know, the only place that she lost me was when she had her baby in her lap, until I had a baby. I could completely understand her thinking of, I am still losing my mind. Yeah. It takes 45 minutes to put that baby in the car seat.
Jeannie (21:42):
Yeah.
Eula (21:42):
We're leaving. If the baby's going to cry back there put the baby in my lap. You don't want to drive? I'm going to drive. I gotta go.
Jeannie (21:48):
Yeah. I have to get away from these people who are hunting me. So we're going to put the baby in my lap for a second. Yeah.
Eula (21:53):
Because also my ears can't handle that screaming. That's screaming actually from the baby?
Jeannie (21:57):
Yep.
Eula (21:57):
It's worse than the paparazzi and the combination?
Jeannie (22:01):
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That stuff is not designed to keep you calm. Like it's designed to set off every stress trigger you have like...
Eula (22:09):
Your boobs just start leaking from a person just crying in the backseat. And then you're supposed to just also get out of here?
Jeannie (22:16):
Eula I want to ask you a question.
Eula (22:18):
Yeah.
Jeannie (22:18):
So you wanted to watch this because you pointed out rightly that this is a documentary about a woman dealing with a profoundly sexist workplace. Like layers and layers and layers and layers and layers of sexist workplace. So, um, relentlessly awfully like terribly rip-you-to-shreds, sexist workplace.
Eula (22:41):
Kinda every workplace? But go ahead.
Jeannie (22:44):
Yeah. So that's my question is like, what, you know, what did it teach you like? Or what did it show you about workplaces in general? Oh, I know nothing positive.
Eula (22:57):
No. I mean, I would say that some of the things that I experienced on the job have been, you know, in line and in step with, um, what Britney experienced, you know, on her job. I feel like I've had men say inappropriate things. I've had people disregard my contribution. I've had, um, you know, someone else get more of my money. It feels like if that makes sense. Um, and so, I mean, it feels like in a lot ways, like a direct translation and in other ways, you know, the gratitude to be able to cover my body, you know. Despite how no one's listening anyways. Right? Like the same way people who aren't listening to her and her genius. I was going to ask you in. So you said that you, you know, you bought the tabloids. Why did you buy them?
Jeannie (23:47):
Well, um, at the time it was because it felt like it was a quick little break from, um, the job that I had. Um, you know, I was, you know, I was waiting tables and then I started, uh, working for free at the public radio station, because that's how things happen in like the early 2000s is you interned for a really long time. And then eventually they started paying you. It felt like a break. It was like, I'm not thinking about all of these other things. I'm thinking, you know, it's like this little bit of escapism, it was like having, um, I used to love eating Pringles. It was like a visual version of eating Pringles. It was like just a minute of something that was like really salty and great. And then I felt kind of gross afterwards, but not so gross that I didn't want to do it again next week.
Jeannie (24:41):
So, um, yeah,
Eula (24:44):
It's a quick high.
Jeannie (24:44):
Yeah, yeah! If I'm completely honest with you, Eula, like I was also buying those magazines cause I felt like I was like, I was kind of better particularly then the young women, right? In those magazines I wasn't making, I wasn't, you know, it was very easy to judge decisions that Britney Spears appeared to be making about her life. Or that Lindsay Lohan was making about her life or Paris Hilton or any of these girls. Right? Like, it was super easy for me to sit on the bus on my way home from interning at the public radio station. And I could be all like, you know, look at those dummies, look at those dummies.
Eula (25:21):
I was just thinking about...cause you weren't paying your whole family's bills like they were, you know?
Jeannie (25:24):
I know, I know. Yeah. I didn't even have a real job.
Eula (25:28):
They were paying all of their parents' bills. They were paying for all of their siblings, you know, they were there, they were the, you know, I mean that would drive anyone to drink.
Jeannie (25:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eula (25:38):
But, but I'm with you on that too, you know, I can remember thinking like it wouldn't be me in such short skirts and short cars with no underwear, you know?
Jeannie (25:46):
Yeah. You know, I mean, I hadn't really made this connection until we started talking about this, but like, if I'm really honest, like, because I could sort of judge Britney and Lindsay and Paris and sort of, you know, have this kind of feeling of superiority, like I'm better than them because I have a not real job where they don't pay me where, you know. I help in the public radio place, whatever. Um, like I could pretend that that made me better somehow. Like, um, it also made it easier for me to judge women in real life, too. Like, you know, if there was any bleed over between what I thought of someone like Britney Spears and what I thought of someone in my real life, I could judge them in the same way and I could see myself as better than them.
Eula (26:36):
I completely get that, you know, and I'm sure I've done it to folks. You know, what I took away from this in so many ways was the, just that we, we often put a lot of...we project so much. That's what it is! We project so much, right? We project so much of what we're dealing with and what we're living under. Right? I just really appreciate her guidance in all of this because for a lot of people, she's like the gonna be the first person that really opens their eyes to this understanding that there are certain roles that people will want to place you in, where they only value you for your appearance. And you can't fall into that. Or if you do understand that that's not a true representation of who you are. Right?
Jeannie (27:20):
Yeah.
Eula (27:21):
And even more so post partum stress...
Jeannie (27:27):
Oh God.
Eula (27:28):
...is the hardest thing to experience because let me tell you, it just takes you down. And I would be so grateful if Britney really spoke to that period and that experience. And my son's up... but what about you? What are your takeaways? Oh,
Jeannie (27:49):
That's really good. Um, you know, the, um, the thing I keep thinking about 1. Is that, um, I'm really sorry for the fact that I, um, that I was, that I fell in line with the way all of these systems were presenting Britney and trying to tell us what the story was. Um, you know, not that she needs my apology. But you know, uh, my other big takeaway is that, um, I kind of can't believe how long it took, uh, me to be able to start asking critical questions about narratives like this. Right? Like I just accepted that Britney was, um, either, you know, way too over-sexualized for her own good. And of course that was her fault. And how could she do that? And then when she started falling apart, that was her fault too. Um, it never occurred to me to question that narrative and say like, wait, there's an actual human being in there who's suffering. Why aren't we actually, why aren't we talking about that? Um, I don't know. And I think my last takeaway is like, man, I hope she doesn't feel like she owes anybody, anything because she doesn't owe us, shit!
Eula (29:18):
Nothing.
Jeannie (29:19):
She doesn't owe us shit.
Eula (29:19):
Nothing.
Jeannie (29:21):
I just saw a picture of her on Instagram with her two kids, like standing in front of a sunset. And I was like, you know, what, follow a sunset. You don't owe us a god damn thing. We have taken enough from you. We have taken more than enough from you. I hope you get to chase the sunset for the rest of your life and just do shit that makes you happy.
Eula (29:42):
And she's given us enough too, you know, I'm grateful for what she's given us. Because I really enjoy her music. I think she's a good singer, you know, I think she's a good performer. Oh my gosh. Okay. So Britney, if you can hear us first, I want you to know that, uh, your talent is out of this world. You are all deserving of all the grace and, uh, gratitude for the memories that you bless me with from, you know, the late nineties to now. Uh, also, uh, thank you for the kindness that you've given us all, despite the lack of it that we've offered you. Oh, I don't know, girl. I'm just glad that you, um, are doing it for us in any direction. And I hope that you are able to refind your passion for performance so that I can see you live so that Jeannie and I could see you live together someday. Oh, that would be amazing. And, um, again, just thank you for being our guide in this, because it's important that somebody, uh, is able to walk us through how to do better and you teach us what not to do is going to clearly guide us towards what we should be doing. Um, and I'm grateful for that.
Jeannie (30:53):
Oh, I love that. Woo, okay. So Britney Spears, if you are watching this first and foremost, I know you don't need my apology, but I am sorry I ever judged you. You are incredibly smart and you are ambitious and you are talented. And I wish I had seen that sooner. I really do. And I'm glad I get the chance to go back and revisit some of the work that you've made so that I can experience it now with fully open eyes, about what a powerhouse you are.
Jeannie (31:36):
Battle Tactics for your Sexist Workplace is an independent...
Eula (31:46):
Wait, wait, wait. Sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So in this episode, we had a really good time talking about things that we felt expert on because it was a really casual conversation. But then we started talking about astrology and we're not very expert on it. And we weren't very thorough in our, you know, in our reading. So I know you had something that you wanted to disclaim and then I did it too.
Jeannie (32:08):
Okay. Okay. You're right. Okay. Thank you. So yeah, briefly I talked about Chiron, um, in Britney's, uh, natal chart. Chiron in Greek mythology. I talked about him as the wounded warrior and that's incorrect. He is known as he is known as the wounded healer in astrology. And the idea there is that like, he doesn't take enough care of himself to heal, but he's always helped working to heal others. Right?
Eula (32:34):
I can see that. I mean, it's interesting in the documentary, how people talk about how in their awkwardness, she healed them with her, a lot of ways her perfection.
Jeannie (32:44):
That's exactly what I thought about too, is all those people who were like, you know, she, she gave me the strength to be able to deal with being a gay boy in a school, and in a town where nobody cared about me. Like, that music, you know, she was suffering, suffering, suffering, but she was able to help heal a lot of stuff for her fans, which is just kind of amazing and magical. So what's your big disclaimer?
Eula (33:08):
Oh, so then I'm terrible with astrology. And that when I, I should say that I am an Aquarius rising. So my, so I'm an Aquarius rising, which means like the first version of me that you meet is Aquarius. And so, which is why like I, every outfit is a little funky. I can't help it. It's a little "outer spacey Eula," but then also, um, I have, I struggle sometimes to land the plane on what I'm trying to say, you know, this. I'll go like in a circle for a while before I go, oh, this is the point. But, and in that, I wanted to say that when I said earlier that Aquarius' are outer spacey, I didn't want to diss nobody. I don't want to make anybody feel like that was like a slight to them because Aquariuses are very smart.
Eula (33:45):
They tend to be less emotional and kind of see things from a distance. And that's what I mean when I say outer spacey. Because often I knew, I mean, this is true. I sound disconnected from my own thoughts when I speak. And then the other thing I wanted to say too with Sagittariu' I was just like, they're fun. They're fun. I was married to a Sagittarius who was sun, moon and rising Sag. And what I would say too is that they are students, they are learners, they're experts. They are good at what they do. And they stay in that lane, period. Uh, you know, Marvin as an artist, her as an entertainer period. It made complete sense to me, why at a young age, her parents were like, this is what she's going to do, because you know, they have video of Marvin as smallest Britney was when she started herself, drawing everywhere around the house.
Eula (34:28):
Right? So they are just set on what they want to do, and they're good at what they want to do. And their learned students, they're open to more education constantly. And that makes sense, too, of why she, you know, her career is as long as it is. And she's willing to do something like Vegas and stick with it. Because it allows for her to hone and hone in home. Um, but they are fun and they do get over things quickly. You know, they tend not to like land on things because it's a fire sign and Aquarius is an air sign. So, you know, not a lot of, not a lot of grounding in that. Do you feel me?
Jeannie (34:59):
Yeah. That's really interesting. So everybody, who's listening to this if you look at the notes that came along with this episode, there is a link to the birth chart of Britney Spears. If you want to go deep on this, you totally can. Okay. Should we do the credits now?
Eula (35:16):
Yeah. Battle Tactics for your Sexist Workplace is an independent podcast.
Jeannie (35:25):
Our senior producer is Kyle Norris.
Eula (35:28):
Our production partner is Studio To Be Seattle.
Jeannie (35:31):
This podcast was co-founded in partnership with KUOW Puget Sound Public Radio and the University of Washington.
Eula (35:39):
We were inspired by the book "Feminist Fight Club" by Jessica Bennett.
Jeannie (35:42):
Our music is by Kessiah Gordon and our brand design is by Teo. You can find Teo on Instagram at teo._dora. (Which is spelled DORA.) And huge, massive...
Eula (36:09):
Gigantic!
Jeannie (36:09):
Banana-ly large, yes! Big, big, thanks to Phyllis Fletcher, Brie Ripley, Bethany Denton, and Dana Bialek. Thank you all so much.
Eula (36:09):
Absolutely. You can get in touch with us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at btswpodcast or by emailing btswpodcast@gmail.com. And if you love the show, help us make it. Patronize us become a patron at patreon.com/btsw.
Jeannie (36:29):
And as long as you're at your computer or your phone, please take a moment to rate and review the show on apple podcasts. I would love to explain why this is so important. I don't understand why it's so important. I just know that it really increases visibility for our show when people are searching for something new on Apple Podcasts. So take a moment, write a review on Apple Podcasts, and then tell a friend about our show. Word of mouth is actually the biggest way our audience grows, which is extremely cool.
Eula (36:59):
And it's the biggest way the fight continues. All right, you guys keep fighting the good fight. Bye everyone.
Jeannie (37:05):
Bye. Talk to you soon.