Episode 7: When Eula Met Jeannie

11/29/21

How did you two meet?

When it comes to this podcast, that's the question Eula and Jeannie get asked the most. And it's one of their favorite stories to tell. So on this episode, we're doing something a little different. We're having them tell the story of how they met and their friendship.

Big thanks to our Senior Producer Kyle Norris for suggesting we make this a podcast episode!

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Transcript

Grace Lee (00:00):

"Viewers Like Us" is hardly the first effort to call out public television on its record with People of Color. In 2007, Latin-X viewers organized to protest a Ken Burns documentary.

Grace Lee (00:12):

Even when he interviews People of Color for his films, he still controls the narrative. Then pats himself on the back for including us at all.

Grace Lee (00:19):

I'm Grace Lee, host of "Viewers Like Us." We're investigating how this kind of pattern keeps happening, even now. Join us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Eula (00:36):

This is "Battle Tactics for your Sexist Workplace."

Jeannie (00:39):

A podcast that knows yes, your workplace is sexist, but we've got tactics to help change that. I'm Jeannie Yandel

Eula (00:48):

I'm Eula Scott Bynoe. Help us make this show happen. Y'all become a patron at patreon.com/btsw.

Jeannie (00:59):

So this is a fun episode because we are going to tell the story of how we met and how we started working together and how we became friends.

Eula (01:10):

It's really nice. It's really nice. And cause we're best buds.

Jeannie (01:13):

Awww...

Eula (01:15):

And what I love about it is it's like truly our origin story. And it wasn't that long ago, but it kind of feels like how they made Wolverine right after the X-Men movies came out. And it was like, we just saw the same actor. How is he supposed to be his past version of himself? But it had been enough years that the nostalgia was valuable.

Jeannie (01:35):

There ya go. I like that a lot. I don't know if we could play our past selves. We might've aged too much in the last few years, but I'm just saying, cause pandemic, pandemic.

Eula (01:44):

Yeah, but we also clean up nice.

Jeannie (01:46):

We do clean up nice.

Eula (01:47):

We just haven't cleaned up pre-pandemic.

Jeannie (01:50):

Since February of 2020. Okay. Fair enough.

Eula (01:53):

At all. At all. For what? For what?! (laughing) And we should say this episode was the idea of our wonderful senior producer, Kyle Norris. But now we're going to go back. So it was December, 2017. Uh, I had just had Livi. And you man, where was your kid at?

Jeannie (02:14):

Uh, my kid was in kindergarten. Uh, yeah, well, I was at work at KUOW Public Radio in Seattle where I've worked for like the last 15 years. But it also feels important to say like Livi was like an infant, a newborn. He was extremely new. I remember meeting him that day and being stunned by his newness.

Eula (02:41):

A three month old. It's like I accidentally went back to work when the government would've forced me.

Jeannie (02:52):

Little did you know when you walked into that recording booth at KUOW to be on the radio, you were signing up for a job...

Eula (03:02):

Yeah. (music)

Jeannie (03:10):

Okay. So I knew Eula because I was a fan girl, um, of her podcast, "Hella Black, Hella Seattle.", Um, I had listened to several of the interviews that she had done because she led the interviews on that show. And there were always moments where, like, one of two things would happen. She would ask exactly the question that I wanted answered, um, which I always was like, that's the mark of a great interviewer. Like, it's a thing I'm thinking. And then the person just asks the question, but then she did this other thing that like, I can only really think of one other person as an interviewer who has ever done this, which is she asked a question that was even like that I had never thought of. But as soon as I heard it, I was like, "Yes!" Like, yeah. So I was, um, I thought she was just really great. And then, um, I was filling in hosting the KUOW noon daily talk show, The Record and, um, Eula was going to be a guest. Uh, and I was super excited about that.

Eula (04:17):

Well, I should say, I always knew who Jeannie was cause I listened to KUOW very regular. That's what I should say.

Jeannie (04:23):

That's the first time you told me, I mean, I knew you listened to KUOW but I never, I literally never connected the dots until right now when you said it.

Eula (04:30):

Oh yeah, no that's why like me and Marvin...When we first met you, Marvin was just so excited. Cause he was just like, you know, you listen to her on the radio. And I was like, I know!

Jeannie (04:39):

And she came into the studio and it was supposed to be a live interview. And I remember you came in and you had those horn-rimmed glasses on, with a little...And I was like, those are the best glasses I've ever seen. That's that was my first impression of you in person. I was like, those are the best glasses I've ever seen.

Eula (04:59):

That's so nice. I can put them on now. You want me to?

Jeannie (05:02):

Oh my God!

Eula (05:02):

I think I, but I think I lost, I lost the lens. I'm being very...

Jeannie (05:08):

I'm not going to judge you for not having lenses in these amazing glasses.

Eula (05:11):

I have a lens in one and not in the other.

Jeannie (05:13):

God! Look at those! Oh, so great. You're holding your eye that's hilarious...

Eula (05:18):

I'm going to get them fixed. I just get them fixed. One of these, I need a new lens though. I know my eyes are changing.

Jeannie (05:23):

Yeah. Yep. It happens as we get older. Anyway. So, um, Eula came into the studio. I was all sprung on the glasses she was wearing. And then we started doing the interview. And you know, as a live interview, you're supposed to be paying attention to the clock all the time and paying attention to how long people's answers are and everything else so that you hit your mark and you don't go over. And I stopped paying attention to the clock. Like it ceased to be a job thing. And I was just like, and I just forgot, like the producer had to be like, "You have 30 seconds!" in my ear because I just spaced what I was supposed to be doing, which was interviewing her. I just want to talk to her more. Not really. I just want to listen to you actually.

Eula (06:06):

Well, I would say that Jeannie and I melded really easily from the very beginning, I was really comfortable in the conversation. You know what I mean? The thing about going on like a radio show in the afternoon, like a daytime radio show is they do the pre-interview always, and I always feel bad because I'm not a pre-interview to interview person. They're two different people. Like I don't know what I said in the pre-interview so I don't know what I'm going to say in the interview. You know what I mean? And so I remember thinking, uh, man, am I going to get this right? Am I going to be on with this? And I remember being really grateful for how much you steered me in the conversation. But also like how much there were moments where I was like, I think I had the wrong answer and you didn't react that way. Your, your reaction. Wasn't like, "Oh, uh, that's not what you said in the pre-interview." It was more like, "Oh, okay. I didn't expect you to say that. So what did you like, what do you think?" And you know, and I'm rambling and developing my thoughts as we go. But I remember walking away from that feeling really good. And then after that, uh, Jeannie asked me to co-host Battle Tactics, pretty much.

Jeannie (06:57):

I pretty much chased her out of the studio and was like, "Do you want to make this podcast with me right now?"

Eula (07:04):

Yeah. And in my heart, I was like, yeah, right. Like I promise you, every part of me was like, sure, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a mythical plot in my life where I just like go to one interview and then get a job that I've always dreamed of. Like I went to school for radio broadcasting and I'm going to use this degree. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah, no way. Ain't no way. And so I, uh, I actually left town, remember? I left town and my phone broke.

Jeannie (07:30):

Yes. I do remember this.

Eula (07:32):

And we were gone. We were gone for like two weeks and my phone was out. So I was using Marvin's phone, but there was still constant communication in a way that I was like, okay, I think people are serious about me? I think that they like me, which is very confusing...

Jeannie (07:44):

100%.

Eula (07:44):

And I remember telling...I remember talking to Caroline about the gig (Caroline our former producer). And she, um, when she was talking to me, she was kind of saying, "Well, what would you want from the job?" And I remember thinking how weird that was. And I was very straightforward. Cause I kept thinking this isn't a real opportunity. This is one of those things where they're just talking to you for a second. And that doesn't happen again. One time, one time I, when Cube 93 was like looking for a, like a host or whatever, where you could like enter a competition. I totally entered the competition. And I made it through several rounds. You know what I'm saying? And so like, I have tried this before in my own little magical mythical way and still didn't expect a thing. So like when this was happening, I just was like, no.

Eula (08:23):

And also to be able to talk about injustice, I just couldn't see that coming. Right? Like I couldn't see the opportunity coming to like really be myself on the job. I've been fired. Like, I'm going to guess I've been fired 10 times. I'm going to say I've had 30 jobs. You know what I mean? So to be walking into one that like was a perfect fit, just seemed absurd. But I'm also really into signs. Right? Like the Scorpio in me really loves the balance of being with Jeannie. Who's a Taurus. Like, I love that you're a Taurus Jeannie, because we're supposed to be together. That's what they say. They say that like, you know, I'm, I'm born at the time of death when everything is coming to an end. And like November is just like the complete end of like fall to winter and it's just cold.

Eula (09:02):

But then you're born in spring, which is like all about birth when like literally we go from like icicles out there to just like flowers sprouting up. Right? And there's supposed to be beauty in both of them. And so I'm really grateful for that, for that we have that balance. And then the, you know, that story about the t-shirt is like...

Jeannie (09:18):

Oh my God,

Eula (09:19):

I think is like the, my favorite chapter of our story, because I would say that like, as we're starting to, you know, work together, I think the story looks like, okay, these two women, like each other and they're excited and they could start something really cool, but you know, giddy, giddy, just giddy.

Jeannie (09:34):

Yeah. A lot of that time was just like "Oh my God oh my God!" Like I was just really excited to hang out with you.

Eula (09:41):

Right. Because we're getting to work on a pilot and we're picking it. We don't have to have a name for the show, so it's just a good time. And um, but then we have this beautiful sign sent to us where, uh, uh, right at, right after I got the job, Marvin was like, you know, my husband, Marvin was a designer. And so he was like, you got to get clothes for the job. And so of course you go to Goodwill and, um, and because you're damn near poor, homeless, that kind of poor. And, uh, as we go to Goodwill and we get this beautiful shirt and it's this black shirt that Marvin loves as an artist that just has these different versions of the smiley face by Monet, like by Monet and DaVinci and, uh, Raul?? Or other artists whose names I don't know, or even know their style of, because I'm not an artist myself. But you know, so Marvin gets me this shirt and he dresses me for work one day and I get to the job and Jeannie's like, "Oh, I love your shirt. I had that shirt." And I'm like, "You had this shirt?? This is your shirt."

Jeannie (10:32):

Yes. Yeah.

Eula (10:34):

And what did you think of that moment?

Jeannie (10:34):

Because it wasn't just that I had the shirt. It was that I did like, you know, one of my like clean outs. Um, I, it was here in Seattle and I donated it to Goodwill.

Eula (10:46):

Yeah.

Jeannie (10:46):

Yep.

Eula (10:46):

And here I am just rocking this shirt. But also like who finds anything at Goodwill a year later? Or ever later?

Jeannie (10:53):

I know.

Eula (10:53):

We knew it was your shirt so quickly. Remember, cause you were like, "My dad got me this shirt" and you know, blah, blah, blah. "And I just donated it." And I was like, this is just, this is a sign we needed. You know, this is a really clear sign we needed that this is like was already written. It really was. You know, I would say my favorite thing about connecting with Jeannie is that Jeannie really sees me. You know, I've had a lot of opportunities to meet a lot of people, you know, Seattle's a small, big city. And I feel like I know most of the players. And um, often it feels like the expectation is that of a progressive taking, right?

Eula (11:31):

Like we all know there are problems. We all know there are concerns and we know that you have something to offer. So we'll take that and we'll listen a little and then we'll move through it. And it could be over with for me. And it could, you know, start for you or whatever. I don't know. I'm not taking on your burden in our interactions, if that makes sense. And um, I get why people do that. I mean, I get the plus of the, I get the pluses of individuality. Right? But I really struggle with that. I mean, I truly struggle with that. Actually. I really liked like thinking collectively all the time. Like for example, when I buy something and I don't like it and it doesn't fit or something like that, I don't return it. I just think who can I give this to?

Eula (12:10):

Because I just already bought it and somebody needs it that I know, you know? And I want to think who can I pass it on to and build with my collective with. With Jeannie. It's so interesting because in getting to know her, I think I was really open and honest because of our circumstances of the job. Right? We're talking about sexism in the workplace and we're unpacking our own things, which has never happened to me. I've never been at work and somebody say, well, you know, why is this job hard for you? How does it make you feel? And also the irony of how much time we spend in the workplace. You know, it was a trip to think about all the references that we could pull from our own experiences and in doing so I would tell Jeannie things and she would really hold me in them and then apply them.

Eula (12:54):

You know, I would say the challenges of being a new mom and then she would help me adjust to them and make my life easier. I would explain the challenges of being a black woman. And she would, you know, give me guidance or say, or come back to me, one of my favorite Jeannie things is when she comes back, "I've been thinking about what you said, and then it can, I connected these dots. And then I learned more about it. And now I think I know enough to like speak on it." And it's always like, oh, I don't even know what I was saying, Jeannie. I mean, when I rant about my life, I just kinda think, you know, black woman, it's like a, it's like just a, you know, a play that's going on off of Broadway. But like, no one's buying tickets to see. So the idea that you like come to the theater and you sit, I'm just like shocked. I'm just shocked. But then also, cause you don't just come in and you sit, you come and you sit and you...and you bring flowers and you bring, you know, a gift card for wherever we're going after. So we don't even have to think about it, you know? And you come with a plan and it makes me feel really seen. (pause)

Jeannie (14:01):

I love you Eula.

Eula (14:03):

I love you too. I really do. And I felt the love so early, I started talking about the compound so early, remember? Yes. And you were, and you were like, "Oh, I'm in." And I was like, I don't think she means that when she says she's in. I don't. I mean, cause I've also, I've already agreed that white folks are allowed on the compound, but I just didn't know anyone to come. Cause it sounds a little weird to be like, you know, do you want to come live with like brown people and just like live off the land and like get her out of capitalism, you know? And when you said, yeah, it was like, oh my gosh, this is the weirdest conversation. People just get dismissive of me. They just get like confused at why that I'm even thinking. You know? So that was really nice too. And I know that you will come, that's, what's fun to, you know, is if we start a compound, then we're going to do this. We're going to figure out a way where we get to do very little work, but we get to do lots of interviews.

Jeannie (14:50):

Yup, yup, Yup. Yup. And I think I said that my skill was, I can make spreadsheets and I can help plan. And that's still what I can do.

Eula (14:58):

Yes. And we still need a schedule. We still need a schedule. We need a rotating schedule for all things. You know, it's like a big camp

Jeannie (15:06):

I'm into that. I can be the camp scheduler. I tried to keep plants alive. I thought I would be a pandemic garden person and I can't even do it when I'm home all the time. So I'm not going to be able to do that, but I can definitely, I can still schedule things.

Jeannie (15:23):

I am trying to think of an answer to this question of what my favorite thing is about the connection that you will and I have. And I think, I think my favorite thing is that, um, it doesn't feel like it's just one connection. It feels like there's a whole constellation of connections. Um, and, uh, and here's what I mean by that. Like, um, I mean that, it's the shirt. Um, and every time Stella and Livi actually like talk to each other on FaceTime or like when they hung out together, when, when you two came over for brunch and the fact that Stella, like after a couple of hours was like, "I can't have this person continual continually touch my stuff." And it was just like, okay, I know now what the dynamic between the two of them is going to be for the rest of their lives. Like that felt like another tendril, is that Stella is just going to be like, "Enough!" Cause that's just...

Eula (16:23):

I know is he still two? Is he still two? Because he doesn't stop moving.

Jeannie (16:27):

Yeah. But that felt like another, like another like root that like that brought the two of us together. Um, and it keeps happening...

Eula (16:36):

So I think about Catholicism too.

Jeannie (16:38):

Really?

Eula (16:38):

I think about Catholicism too. Just like, well, yeah, just because of how, you know, it's my mom being raised Catholic is one of those things that like, it just doesn't play. It, it doesn't, it doesn't come up enough, you know, in my life. But it also plays, it plays out really aggressive in my life. Like a lot of my thinking is based on like a lot of her thinking and a lot of her thinking was because there were nuns right behind her for 12 years, you know? The idea of like how much you hung out with nuns in your lifetime. You know, it really kind of marries a lot of just my thinking and it feels really normal because of that. You know, I think I know people so often they see race before they see anything else, you know? And that's just so funny because we just have so much in common that's not race, you know. We have in common the way our parents think about, you know, good and bad, you know. We have in common the way that we think about, um, a good time as like, you know, we love listening to stuff.

Jeannie (17:31):

Yeah. Yes, yes.

Eula (17:34):

It's hard to tell people that, "What do you wanna do?" I like to listen to people talk.

Jeannie (17:37):

I know! I want to sit and be quiet and hear what somebody else has to say.

Eula (17:41):

Seriously. And also, you know, just the fact that we both have, we're both like the patient type to like be at a bad job long enough to know what the wrongs are, you know? And I know that I'm the type to get. I mean, I get fired and quit because that's just my way, right? But also like you see it, you know, and you're not, you're not the type to just completely shy from it and shrink from it. We deal with it differently, but we both really don't like injustice. Right? And then we also both like movement. We really both like movement. You know, you being a transplant is like really interesting, but also me still being here, despite the amount of moving I've done, it's really a blessing that our paths were able to cross because you know, who knew if I would be in Seattle? I mean, I was leaving Seattle the minute we got the, I got the job what am I talking about?

Jeannie (18:22):

You were on your way out the door. Yep. Yeah.

Eula (18:25):

But then, you know, I would say our Harry Potter connection is valuable also. And I know that might not be that big of a deal, but like, I mean, I'm a black girl really into Harry Potter. You're, you're a bit, you're a bit senior than me really into Harry Potter. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I'm right at that cusp of like, are you still into this? And I'm like, I am. And then just, you know, our, our, our want for a good time and community building, I think we have the exact same, like, makeup of what we think is important really. Truly. Yeah.

Jeannie (18:53):

Yes. You, you devour and synthesize information. Like, I mean, like nobody, I can't really think of many other people who do that the way you do. Like, it's, it's really astonishing. Um, and it was one of those things, like, this is another thing that I think our moms, like our moms both like work their asses off. Like their whole lives were defined by work. But also our moms, like, I think we're both so extraordinarily humble that like, they were not, they were not necessarily interested in like, you know, treating us like special, special superstars.

Eula (19:28):

No!

Jeannie (19:28):

But you know, like, you know, and I can remember like telling your mom, like, I think it must've been at the launch party for the podcast. Like I can remember telling her, like I was just kinda like, "Uh, so Eula's really smart. And her brain like just sucks in information, like nobody I've ever met before. And she's, you know..." And I can remember your mom kind of being like, okay...

Eula (19:51):

Sure, okay. But is her room clean? I mean, man...

Jeannie (19:56):

But I want to say, so the other thing about, okay, here's the other thing that I love about the connect, my connection with you, or like the connection that we have, or like...There are, there are things that I learn about that we talk about that you tell me about that like later it's like, there, there are gifts there that I didn't even realize. And the most recent example of this is astrology. After like the whole time we've known each other, I've been like "Astrology??"... And here we are, here we are in 2021 and I have a birth chart and I am like, totally get it. Like, and that's you like, that's you that's because I've been listening to you talk about astrology for two and a half years. And yeah.

Eula (20:39):

That's why we're besties though, too. Cause I mean, I mean, honestly, when it comes to astrology, you can't talk about a Scorpio without talking about a Taurus. You can't do it. It's impossible. I mean, it really is. It's impossible. We're just the same kind of people, you know, a water sign and an earth sign so different, but not!

Jeannie (20:56):

But they're like right across each other in the skies, which I did not know.

Eula (21:00):

And they're the most connected of any sign, no signs are connected as much as Scorpios and Taurus. They're just the most similar across the board. They have very similar thinkings about loyalty--we're super loyal people, you know what I mean? We have similar thinkings about, you know, about, um, doing things right, too. You know, and not putting, not really wanting to do a lot of work behind it, but making sure it looks good and it presents well.

Jeannie (21:19):

Yeah, yeah,

Eula (21:20):

Yeah. I mean, we want to do the work, but you know, we don't want to do the work. Like we're not trying to like be scientists. We're trying to get back to lounging! Yeah. We're trying to get back to the good parts we're trying to get, you're trying to get back to the snacks and I'm trying to get back to the bed. And the nice thing is like that we, because of that, we're, we're so curious, you know. I would say that because of like the, like the death and the birth in us, we're just so like wrapped up in everything that comes in between.

Eula (21:45):

And that's why we're just so drawn to this storytelling thing, you know? And it's also, I think, you know, our curiosity about ourselves and how to survive this place, right. That's why we're here. That's why we're asking these questions. How do we live? You know, what is this water we're drinking? You know, like our, our, our like fantasy is that, we're the one telling the doctor as we're dying that what we know what we have...(laughs) "I know what this is and I'm going to die today. I already know, I know what it is. I watched it play out and I told four doctors and I was in charge of everything. None of them listened to me. I mean, I am a woman, but, um..."

Jeannie (22:22):

But also we would be using our dying breaths to try and make the doctors laugh.

Eula (22:25):

Yeah!!! (laughing)

Eula (22:36):

Battle Tactics for your Sexist Workplace is an independent podcast.

Jeannie (22:39):

Our senior producer is Kyle Norris and our show is mixed by Bethany Denton.

Eula (22:44):

Our production partner is Studio To Be Seattle.

Jeannie (22:47):

This podcast was co-founded in partnership with KUOW Puget Sound Public Radio and the University of Washington.

Eula (22:54):

We were inspired by the book "Femininst Fight Club" by Jessica Bennett.

Jeannie (22:58):

Our music is by Kessiah Gordon and our brand design is by Teo. You can find Teo on Instagram at teo._dora. (Which is spelled DORA.) And huge, massive...

Eula (23:07):

Gigantic!

Jeannie (23:07):

Big, big, thanks to Phyllis Fletcher, Brie Ripley, and Dana Bialek. Thank you all so much.

Eula (23:21):

You can get in touch with us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at btswpodcast or by emailing btswpodcast@gmail.com. And if you love the show, help us make it. Patronize us become a patron at patreon.com/btsw.

Jeannie (23:41):

And as long as you're at your computer or your phone, please take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And then tell a friend about our show. Word of mouth is actually the biggest way our audience grows, which is extremely cool.

Eula (23:56):

All right you guys keep fighting the good fight. Bye everyone!

Jeannie (23:59):

Bye. Talk to you soon.

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